Template talk:British Rail EMU

Trains: in UK Template‑class Low‑importance

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This template was nominated for deletion, but did not have consensus to delete. Thus it is kept. See Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Log/Not deleted/June 2005. However, given its sheer size it may be worth considering to split it or convert it to a list. Radiant_* 09:55, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC)

What is the source for South Eastern’s high-speed trains being designated Class 395? David Arthur 22:03, 22 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This news page [1] on Southeastern's offical site is the only reference to 395 I've found so far. Thryduulf 21:48, 25 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Also this page advertising for a Depot manager, and this PDF (second last bullet on PDF page 18/document page 16) on Network Rail's site also mention them as Class 395. Thryduulf 21:55, 25 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I have created a new design for the template. It can be found below. The benifits of it over the current design are that it is collapsible, it has the v-d-e function, the layout is clearer and the template takes up less space on the page.

I would like to hear the thoughts of other people first, and have a consensus reached on whether it should be implemented. If you wish to make any changes to the design, then please make a copy of the template below, then modify it. This means the templates can be compared against each other.

I have also made similar proposals on the related templates here and here.

--Jorvik 20:29, 27 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• I have implemented the design proposal following no objections. --Jorvik 09:42, 31 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

--AlbanScot 11:03, 26 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• I note the intention above to redesign and the comment that it has been implemented. My comment is that the current version on the main page has errors in all the links for the DC Units (original TOPS). For example 411 clicks through to 415. I am unsure whether to change the text or change the link and in light of the intention to redesign I have not corrected it.

Any particular reasons why these are lowercased? I've only ever seen them uppercased, and for the most part they make more sense in uppercase, as abbreviated designators rather than "words". 90.203.45.143 18:56, 20 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• I have emailed the Southern Electric Group about this and been informed that the correct way of writing SR designations is <number><space><upper case letter><lower vase letter><lower case letter>, with the exception of EPB which should be all uppercase. Hammersfan 02/03/08, 21.36 GMT

I have a number of objections to the above:

• All the literature, by authors such as Marsden, Glover and publishing houses like Ian Allan and OPC that I've seen has all codes in uppercase
• Acronyms should be written in capitals (see: WP:MOS)
• Acronyms should also be consistent (see above) - having EPB in capitals and all others not, is not consistent!

best, Sunil060902 (talk) 12:49, 5 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Your literature is not definitive, the correct literature to refer to is the Southern Railway & Southern Region internal documentation, which is what the SEG have done. The SR does not subscribe to the Wikipedia manual of style, having been destroyed somewhat prior to the creation of Wikipedia. Railwayfan2005 (talk) 22:58, 5 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

OK, WP:MOS might be irrelevant, but any references to this documentation in the literature anywhere? Reliable sources and stuff (see WP:RS). best, Sunil060902 (talk) 13:54, 6 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Wikipedia Manual of Style section about acronyms may not be relevant here as they are not all acronyms - for example 4Sub is an abbreviation. It also says "Write out both the full version and the abbreviation at first occurrence" - were they ever referred to as e.g. "Hal electro-Pneumatic Brake Stock" or was "2Hap" etc the official name? The difference in capitalisation (e.g. 4EPB) may reflect differences in the names of different classes. One thing that should be consistent is the naming in different articles e.g. "2Hap" (in British Rail Class 414), "2 Hap" (in Template:British Rail EMU) or "2HAP" (in SR multiple unit numbering and classification). It probably depends on how they are usually referred to. --Snigbrook ^(talk) 23:59, 5 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I just think it weird that most of these acronyms should be in small case, especially given that EPB, MLV and GLV (also the trailer control sets 4TC) are in capitals! best, Sunil060902 (talk) 14:00, 6 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It merits a page in it's own right... See the SEG Website for more info. Railwayfan2005 (talk) 20:08, 6 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I still see no direct references to the original SR documentation you mentioned. How come all the other literature has had all-capitals for so many years? WP:RS best, Sunil060902 (talk) 01:41, 7 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

BTW User:Hammersfan's correspondence above seems to contradict the webpage itself. The email mentions "Number space capital small case", but the webpage has "Number capital small case". best, Sunil060902 (talk) 01:47, 7 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

SEMG adds more. Railwayfan2005 (talk) 21:26, 7 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

As to whether the letter abbreviation is all capitals or mixed case there does not appear to be a consistent convention, and the case used is what was decided by officialdom at the time. BTW I have thoroughly perused my 1986 copy of Motive Power Recognition 2: EMUs and I notice that there are frontal shots of at least 3 classes 4CIG, 4REP, 2HAP and these designations are shown as capitals on the front of the train, beneath the class/specs patch (black). Can't confirm the others since close-ups aren't available, but it's certainly not just the EPBs! best, Sunil060902 (talk) 01:45, 9 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Any reason why Southern Railway designations are here at all?

Per my recent edit summary, I'll be adding {{commonscat}} to each page individually. I can't do this at the moment as Commons is down so I can't check the categories. I'll sort it soon. Adambro (talk) 19:04, 4 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]