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Abdul Samad Dawood

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Abdul Samad Dawood (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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Little has changed in his fortunes since the last AFD eight months ago. He's still a successful and civic-minded businessman from a prominent Pakistani business family, and has worked at a high level for some notable companies. But on Wikipedia, notability is not inherited. I couldn't find SIGCOV of him in English or Urdu, just passing mentions in articles about the companies and organisations he's worked for, nothing to bring it up to the standard of WP:BIO or WP:GNG. Wikishovel (talk) 17:16, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment: If only he had appeared in a few dramas, even in tiny roles, his BLP might have been easily saved from deletion under WP:NACTOR! But it’s ironic that someone so important in Pakistan's business community doesn’t have enough coverage that meets GNG. Anyway, I’ll hold off on voting for now. PS. No offense to the nominator Wikishovel, who also has legitimate reasons for taking it to AFD. — Saqib (talk I contribs) 17:37, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete: Still not a slam dunk; outside of the Engro connection, there are no RS that discuss him and we only have source 13 that is helpful. Rest are yellow per Source Highlighter, so of moderate reliability. I still don't see/find much else we can use. Oaktree b (talk) 22:37, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Keep: The article follows the guidelines of WP:GNG and WP:SIGCOV as it demonstrates significant coverage in both Pakistani and international media, meeting WP:RS. As per WP:BASIC, “People are presumed notable if they have received significant coverage in multiple published[4] secondary sources that are reliable, intellectually independent of each other,[5] and independent of the subject.[6]” Please feel free to check the sources, they meet all the mentioned criteria. Crosji (talk) 07:11, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Reuters is RS.--Ameen Akbar (talk) 14:03, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The Reuters reference is indeed a reliable source, but that article is a summarised interview, and interviews are WP:Primary sources. Wikishovel (talk) 07:10, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Doczilla Ohhhhhh, no! 19:44, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Redirect to Dawood Hercules Corporation because he's prominent businessman serving on the board of various companies under Dawood Hercules Corporation. — Saqib (talk I contribs) 14:41, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep The references for this article are strong, even for a stub. The subject is a notable businessman in Pakistan with occasional public appearances. His notability is supported by coverage from reputable national newspapers and some international outlets. The first deletion discussion, with only one vote for deletion, appeared premature. Hence the new article has been improved with additional sources. While contributions are welcome, the arguments for deletion are not in line with policy. -Crosji (talk) 06:48, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strikethrough of second !vote: in an WP:AFD discussion, we get to post our recommendation just once. You're welcome to comment as much as you like. Wikishovel (talk) 07:03, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep: While there may not be extensive media coverage, the subject is undoubtedly an influential figure in Pakistan’s business community, as highlighted by Saqib and others above. The significance is evident through the inclusion in government advisory groups and recognized contributions. The cited sources, including interviews with reputable, independent global media, further reinforce the prominence. Instead of debating the subject’s notability, efforts would be better spent refining and improving the article.
202.141.250.250 (talk) 10:56, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strikethrough of second !vote: in an WP:AFD discussion, we get to post our recommendation just once. You're welcome to comment as much as you like. Wikishovel (talk) 11:08, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

information Note: Closing admin should disregard some IP votes, as it appears that canvassing may be influencing the outcome. --— Saqib (talk I contribs) 16:13, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting as I still don't see a consensus (even after disregarding second "votes" that were cast). A source review could be helpful as well as arguments based in policy. Opinions, both pro and con, based on who he is related to, are not useful to an AFD discussion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 22:33, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Dawood Hercules Corporation. I was in the process of closing as such, but as we edit conflicted will just leave this as a !vote. He does not merit a standalone, but the target makes sense. Protect if needed against disruptive recreation. Star Mississippi 22:35, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment here's a source assessment, as suggested by Liz above in the relisting comment:
Source assessment table: prepared by User:Wikishovel
Source Independent? Reliable? Significant coverage? Count source toward GNG?
Karachi School of Business & Leadership, "Mr. Abdul Samad Dawood"[1] No Yes No profile page from a university of which he's on the board of governors ✘ No
Engro Corporation "Engro Corporation 1H 2021 Results" [2] No Yes No A press release by his employer announcing compamy results, mentions him briefly in one paragraph ✘ No
The Express Tribune "Summit highlights importance of girls’ education" [3] Yes Yes No Routine coverage of the International Women Leaders Summit, where he's mentioned in passing as an attendee ✘ No
The Express Tribune "Corporate Corner" Yes Yes No a photo of six CEOs and CFOs at a conference, with Dawood and the other five mentioned in passing in the caption ✘ No
Financial Post "Pakistan's Engro Looks To Invest In Other Developing Nations" Yes Yes No an article about Engro, with several quotes from an interview with Dawood ✘ No
Pakistan Stock Exchange "Resignation of Director" [4] Yes Yes No Formal letter to the stock exchange announcing Dawood's resignation from Cyan in 2014 ✘ No
Pakistan Stock Exchange "Board Meeting - Election of Chairman and appointment of CEO, CFO and Company Secretary"[5] Yes Yes No Another formal letter to the stock exchange announcing Dawood's election as chairman of Cyan in 2022 ✘ No
Pakistan Stock Exchange "Change of CEO" [6] Yes Yes No Another formal letter to the stock exchange announcing Dawood's appointment as CEO of Dawood Hercules in 2014 ✘ No
Pakistan Stock Exchange "Appointment of CEO" [7] Yes Yes No Another formal letter to the stock exchange announcing Dawood's resignation as CEO of Dawood Hercules in 2016 ✘ No
Business School Lausanne "PEBBLES (PVT) Ltd.: “Building Hopes” " [8] No Yes No Case study by a business school on a subsidiary company of Dawood Hercules, where Samad Dawood is mentioned in three places as the parent company's CEO, e.g. " the organization’s sustainability perspective and the journey it took to transform the dream of Mr. Samad Dawood, the CEO of Dawood Hercules Corporation, into a reality" ✘ No
The Express Tribune "Dutch company acquires Engro Foods for $446.81m"[9] Yes Yes No Article about another company taking over Engro Foods, with a quote from Dawood from the Engro press release. ✘ No
Reuters "Pakistani conglomerate Engro looks to go global, its main investor says" [10] Yes Yes No Interview with Dawood about Engro, primary source ✘ No
Pakistan Today " "Engro's Rs60 billion question" [11] Yes Yes Yes Article about the company, with several quotes from Dawood and some analysis of his role, meets SIGCOV. ✔ Yes
Khaadi "Abdul Samad Dawood"[12] No Yes No A short director profile by his employer, primary source. ✘ No
Pakistan Business Council "About PBC"[13] No Yes No Simply lists him as a board member. ✘ No
Hub Power Company "Annual Report 2016"[14] No Yes No Annual report simply lists him as a board member, with a short bio. ✘ No
Sui Northern Gas Pipelines Limited "Annual Report 2008"[15] No Yes No Annual report simply lists him as director, with a short bio. ✘ No
The News International "In rare visit, top Pakistani business leaders meet US officials"[16] Yes Yes No Routine coverage of a trade delegation to the US, mentions him in passing as one of the eight members. ✘ No
The Nation (Pakistan) "Inaugural meeting of Industrial Advisory Council held"[17] Yes Yes No Routine coverage of a government-backed business conference, mentions him in passing as one of the members attending. ✘ No
Pakistan Today "Govt establishes Industry Advisory Council to develop industrial policy"[18] Yes Yes No More routine coverage of the government-backed business conference above, mentions him in passing as one of the members attending. ✘ No
WWF–Pakistan "Annual report 2012"[19] No Yes No Listed on p. 56 in the list of board members ✘ No
Business Recorder "WWF-P holds awards ceremony"[20] Yes Yes No Routine coverage of awards ceremony, briefly mentions Dawood and another member getting certificates of appreciation ✘ No
ABC News (United States) "Titanic submersible victim’s deaths ‘brought the world together,’ Dawood family member says"[21] Yes Yes No Short interview with Samad Dawood on his grief following his brother's death in an accident, primary source. (Please see article for full URL: source assessment template doesn't work with full YouTube links with separators.) ✘ No
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{source assess table}}.

Wikishovel (talk) 16:14, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment: I have just added an additional source from Bloomberg.com, a reputable and independent news outlet, further strengthening the subject’s notability. The table is impressive, though I am unclear why some quotes are not considered significant coverage, as they seem to meet GNG criteria:
- The Reuters article is based on a direct interview with the subject.
- The 2016 Express Tribune article by Salman Siddiqui, from one of Pakistan’s leading English-language newspapers, features prominent quotes from the subject.
- Additionally, a university case study is inherently independent, so I wonder why this is being questioned. Crosji (talk) 11:21, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Not every single businessman from Pakistan becomes notable just for being involve in a business inside Pakistan. BLP lacks significant coverage in reliable sources and by looking at image it seems it is a case of COI. 39.34.141.22 (talk) 09:37, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete per nom. Agree with Wikishovel's table above - I think Profit's article is about Engro so I would not count it as significant coverage about Dawood (I only found a few quotes from him in that article). 202.47.50.250 (talk) 04:28, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment: I am truly impressed by the expertise and subtlety of this contribution. It appears, however, that this necessitates you remaining anonymous and refraining from responding to my comments, which is quite unfortunate. Crosji (talk) 17:28, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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