Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Snooker

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For those unaware, Cazoo entered administration officially earlier this month. While WST still continues to list Cazoo as a principal partner of the tour, and as a sponsor of the World Championship, I doubt that this will remain, as I'm sure the administrators will be trying to make the business meaningful [even though the writing is on the wall, figuratively, for the brand as a whole]. Based on this, how do we want to approach this situation regards to how everything is written on the 2025 World Snooker Championship page? Do we remove all references to Cazoo being sponsor of this event, until we're given confirmation by WST that they are remaining as sponsor for this edition, or place a note somewhere to say that this is in doubt due to its administration? --CitroenLover (talk) 19:44, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Neither. If there are sources (especially the official ones) that say they are sponsoring the event, then we should also say that. We are not here to theory out what is happening. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:48, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The only source suggesting they are is a couple of static pages (ie the tickets and tournament pages on WST's website) which can have this label changed at any time and without warning. I don't think a piece of text on a very generic page about a tournament counts as a meaningful source that they are going to be a sponsor: remember that last years' UK Championship had no sponsor mentioned until the eleventh hour when it became MrQ, but if a piece of text on a generic page constitutes a meaningful source, I guess it needs to remain... despite the unlikeliness of Cazoo sponsoring anything lol. --CitroenLover (talk) 19:57, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Michael White (snooker player) will need updating and all other parts of the wiki updated, as he has just been sentenced in a court of law in Swansea today. He has already been deleted from the players page on the wst website, despite starting the season in the Championship League. Since he’s technically a pro, being deleted from existence on the players pages is a massive red flag that he has just been banned from the sport, and we’re likely to get a statement from wst/wpbsa to confirm. This is confirmed through a Facebook post by his [presumably former] wife, which i won’t link here to avoid harassment of the individual. —CitroenLover (talk) 21:43, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Idle speculation at the moment, so nothing to do except reverting inappropriate edits. Nigej (talk) 06:51, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No longer speculative; the statement has been posted https://wpbsa.com/wpbsa-statement-michael-white/ CitroenLover (talk) 09:09, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Nigej question to ask: should we bother having the column in the performance table for this season for White, considering he played just one tournament before being removed from the tour? It would make more sense to just migrate that information to a heading that says "he played in the 2024 championship league at the start of the season and succeeded in the first group stage, but lost in the second group stage. This would be the only snooker he would play in the season, as he was subsequently removed from the WPBSA and WST after being jailed for assault against his former partner.", rather than having a column containing just tons of "A", "WD" or "DNQ" --CitroenLover (talk) 19:03, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I take your point. Probably I'd be inclined to have a column for this season but not a big issue for me personally. Nigej (talk) 06:01, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We might need to also take him off the current rankings, but until the WPBSA update them he's still going to be listed. Sad stuff. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:15, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Lee Vilenski request that the article about Michael White be protected from further edits, as its being repeatedly vandalised by anon IP's. -- CitroenLover (talk) 10:20, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Nigej: There is a redirect ([1]), created by Randy Kryn on 8 July, which links the 2024 British Open to the 2024 Open Championship golf.
Some pages, including the season article (done by an IP user) and the template (done by me), have had the link changed to British Open, which are wrong and should be reverted.
I want to create the 2024 British Open article soon because the qualifying matches get under way next week, on 31 July.
Could we get this redirect deleted please?  Alan  (talk) 09:39, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There's no need to delete the 2024 British Open article, you can simply edit it as normal. Add a hatnote as has been done at 2023 British Open. Given that all previous British Open snooker tournaments follow the same naming convention I'd have thought that this was a valid thing to do (although I see that British Open redirects to The Open Championship). Nigej (talk) 10:38, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Nigej: Surely the redirect (not the article) needs to be deleted.  Alan  (talk) 11:09, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Nigej: I just tried to create the 2024 British Open article, but the redirect won't let me. It just keeps taking me to the golf. I don't understand why Randy Kryn made the redirect in the first place. Please could we get the redirect deleted?  Alan  (talk) 13:35, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

OK - I get it now. I just created the article by changing the redirect page. Sorry - getting old and stupid.  Alan  (talk) 14:08, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Bit of a longshot, probably. I don't have access to any decent newspaper databases at the moment. I'm trying to find out why Australian player George Ganim was originally listed in the 1987–88 snooker world rankings but then seems to have dropped out. I can only assume that, like Perrie Mans, he resigned from the WPBSA between the time the list was published in Snooker Scene and it appearing in the Benson and Hedges Yearbook. Any info/sources? Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 01:12, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

See the tournament talk page.  Alan  (talk) 13:57, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The WST live-scores site ([2]) appears to be screwed up again. This is getting really annoying.  Alan  (talk) 09:33, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It seems to have just come to life.  Alan  (talk) 10:24, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

... but there's no frames data for the Thepchaiya Un-Nooh v Alexander Ursenbacher match. Not even CueTracker has them. Does anyone know if there were any centuries?  Alan  (talk) 12:03, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No centuries. Youtube: [3] Nigej (talk) 13:32, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you - none at all today so far then.  Alan  (talk) 13:47, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Suggest that Turkish Masters be replaced with {{R with history}} pointing to the 2022 Turkish Masters, with any relevant information placed into a category for "Legacy" (namely, the information regarding the non-existent 2023 edition and the presumption that it could have been on the 2024 calendar). We already have similar for the WST Classic and WST Pro Series, although arguably it would be better if we did not use the year-based naming convention for single-edition tournaments, as it implies the tournament has been held more than once. --CitroenLover (talk) 18:51, 3 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As this hasn't received a reply since being posted, am paging some active editors for opinions on this proposal: @Lee Vilenski @Nigej @AlH42 @BennyOnTheLoose -- CitroenLover (talk) 19:27, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No objection from me.  Alan  (talk) 19:36, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We certainly don't need two articles. It's not clear to me which of the two names is best (with/without the 2022). Perhaps I prefer the one with 2022 but WP:PRECISION.indicates (I think) that the other is preferred (assuming there's no other Turkish Masters). Nigej (talk) 20:11, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Looking on Google, there appears to be no other sporting events called Turkish Masters: all the search results are about the snooker tournament. In that case, the ideal outcome — until another Turkish Masters comes along — is to move 2022 Turkish Masters to Turkish Masters and update all links where possible. Precedent with that would then suggest doing the same with the WST Pro Series and WST Classic. — CitroenLover (talk) 22:49, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. Title should include the year to avoid confusion, but no we don't need two articles, and a good reminder why we shouldn't create a series article before there's been more than one event. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 05:25, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Really no need to "update all links". See WP:DONOTFIXIT. If an article talks about "the 2022 Turkish Masters" then that may well be the best form, whatever the article is called. Nigej (talk) 06:15, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Had a look at trying to do the merging of articles, but I just don't have the time to be able to ensure its done to the required accuracy and standards. Can someone who is active look into this please? @AlH42 @Nigej @BennyOnTheLoose et al. -- CitroenLover (talk) 13:11, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

For those of you with Wikipedia Library access, you might be interested in this article from Journal of Quantitative Analysis in Sports. From the conclusion: "we identify the greatest ever snooker players. Two candidates stand out: Ronnie O’Sullivan and Stephen Hendry... We find a peak age of betweeen 25 and 30: earlier than might be expected when compared to similar sports." Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 09:46, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's an interesting one, considering most people have a feeling O'Sullivan peaked a lot later. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:26, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Once again I find myself being reverted by an IP editor with a great interest in number of titles. I don't think there is any evidence that the Irish Professional Championship was contested annually by Rea. I'm convinced that it was not; Clive Everton wrote that before Higgins played Rea, it had not been contested for some years. Any views or sources would be welcome at that article's talk page. Also, should the qualifying competition (B section) for the News of the World Qualifying Event be listed as a "non-ranking event" in its own right? I think not. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 22:33, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@BennyOnTheLoose: The IP user doing the reverting in the Jackie Rea article is, I'm fairly sure, banned user DooksFoley147, and so all of his edits should be reverted.  Alan  (talk) 05:33, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. Clearly DF147, per WP:DUCK. Regarding the Irish Professional Championship Chris Turner's archive says in the Jackie Rea profile "He started playing in his father’s pub and when he won the Irish Amateur Championship in 1947 he immediately turned professional and, straight away won the Irish Professional Championship which he held continuously, apart from losing it briefly to Jack Bates in 1952, until Alex Higgins successfully challenged him in 1972." and in the Irish Professional Championship part "The first Irish Professional Championship was held in 1947 and was won by Jackie Rea. Right up until 1982 the championship was conducted on a challenge basis with the champion deciding who his challenger would be. Jackie lost one challenge, to Jack Bates in 1952, but regained the title almost straight away and beat off all subsequent challenges until he came up against Alex Higgins in 1972." So absolutely nothing about it being an annual event. As to qualifying competitions. DF147 has held the view that if there's just one qualifier for an event then they've won the qualifier and it counts as a win, if there were two or more qualifiers it wasn't a win. It's an argument that's had no support from anyone else. Nigej (talk) 07:08, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

DF147 has also been editing Igor Figueiredo, Jimmy White, and Ken Doherty using 178.167.170.51.  Alan  (talk) 07:31, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Nigej: I see you've reverted all those, and I did one I found in the Marco Fu article from about a month ago. Surely there must be some way to automate this process, since DooksFoley147 ( Looks like a duck to me) is fairly easy to spot, but uses many different IP addresses.  Alan  (talk) 12:15, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've reverted per WP:Banned means banned. Whether there's some automated system I don't know. Nigej (talk) 12:22, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In terms of automatic ways, edit filters are the only way, and I can't see it being something that's possible with this type of LTA. It is possible to mass delete a users creations, but I don't know much about mass rollback. I consider this user to be an WP:LTA at this stage. I usually follow Revert, Block, Ignore. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:29, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

But DF147 doesn't appear to be listed as LTA.  Alan  (talk) 16:27, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Does anyone know what has happened to the European Series for this season? Is it still a thing?  Alan  (talk) 20:26, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @AlH42 that appears to have been discontinued this year: the BetVictor bonus is only being applied to the Home Nations Series, as there is only the 2025 German Masters being held in Europe this season, so it would have made little sense (it also suggests BetVictor are not sponsoring the German Masters this season either). --CitroenLover (talk) 17:58, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]